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Forum:+2 to Find Rare Items Viable or Not
Ok so, I've recently noticed on mods and been informed about +2 Team Find Rare Items, is this something I should be using? Will it effectively increase my chances of a pearlescent? I believe the typical number of kills it takes to get a pearlescent is something like 62. Will this class mod effectively reduce the number of kills? Math would be great if anyone has the numbers. Doesn't seem to make much difference. Check out the +2 Team Find Rare Items Experiment. But then, it doesn't hurt either. -- MeMadeIt 00:29, April 23, 2010 (UTC) I've killed Craw about 100 times and no pearl. About half those times I've had a +2 rare item class mod. I can say definitively, you get more and better drops with the +2 equipped. I would say an average of 1 extra orange every other kill. Plus slightly better stats on the oranges and slightly better purples. But like I said, I've still not gotten a pearl so I can't comment on that. But definitely feel like I get better and more drops with it equipped.Gamedoctor21 01:00, April 23, 2010 (UTC) I'm not sure if this has happened for anyone else, but on the xbox I've had a mixed team with hunters and sirens each with the +2 rare item class mods and in our experience it seems like we actually get worse loot drops than if we have a team of straight hunters or sirens with the class mod ^^ that's actually the opposite of what my team (1 siren, 2 hunters) finds. We find consistently better loot with +6 team rare items, to the point we won't even look at loot unless we all have them on. I have no evidence for this next point besides annecdotal evidence, but I think the quality of loot is decided when you enter into an area. For example, if we're doing an armory run, we'll all have them on before we enter the Crimson Armory, not just when we get down there. Same for Crawmerax, we all have them equipped before we even enter the area (yes, this does make him harder to kill, but what's the point without good guns?). TheKingBoar 02:28, April 23, 2010 (UTC) 02:26, April 23, 2010 (UTC) I cant cite a source and I unfortunately dont remember where I saw it but my understanding is that the loot is decided right as you open the chest or kill an enemy. so in otherwords you could be playing hunter with a gunslinger mod, go up to a chest, equip your +2 rare items scavenger mod right before opening it and it would affect the quality. Again, this is what I heard and my thought process when I play but I could very well be wrong. If so someone POST THE FACTS. please... cuz I want to know. But then again when I solo craw I use my sniper mod until hes got one shot left and I equip my scavenger mod. my mod has +4 extra items and +2 rare items and I cant really tell if the rare item part is working, but I definitely notice more weapons dropping from craw then when I take that last shot and forget to equip my scavenger mod. That tells me the mod takes affect when equipped and at the first chance of getting used. i.e. killing an enemy. Hellz Lips 04:25, April 23, 2010 (UTC) King Boar is partially right. The +2 rare item mod only works ON CHESTS if you have it equipped when the area loads. Thats because the contents of a chest load when the area loads. The contenst of a chest DO NOT load right when you open them. Thats why some people think the +2 doesn't work on chests. I know this for a fact because 2 times I've approached white weapons crates like you find in New Haven after the update and I could see part of the weapon sticking out of the top of the crate (clipping) BEFORE i had opened it. It only happens with a specific combat rifle with a specific clip but it happens. Once I saw this and opened the crate and realized that I could actually see the weapon with the crate closed, I knew that the weapons load in the crates at the time the level loads. They are there inside the crate waiting for you to open it. However I think the opposite is true of the enemies. I don't think that their drops load until you actually kill them. I say this for 2 reasons, One, because I don't use my +2 item mod until just before I kill craw. And when I forget the loot is noticeably less and lower quality. Second, because MANY times, right when craw dies, the game will lag and slow, even when I'm playing solo. I'm pretty sure it slows because it's loading all the loot. If the loot were already loaded, it wouldn't slow the game down. It would just become visible. So, final answer. Equip the +2, when the entire armory level loads, and equip it just before you kill crawm.Gamedoctor21 05:14, April 23, 2010 (UTC) It doesn't do jack monkey squat on chests in the armory. 10 runs each: Mordecai - assassin; Mordecai - +2 find rare while entering level, assassin otherwise; Mordecai - +2 find rare while opening chests, assassin before; Roland. All chests opened, weapons collected, rarity caclulated based on data available in willowtree. Average rarity around 17.4, differences between run sets not statistically significant. For comparison the rarity of Crawmerax drops is around 21, and it's possible that this is only because Craw doesn't drop many white weapons. -- aakova The only thing i can say to this whole chests load when the level loads thing is that it may or may not. If i open a red chest that contains a rocket launcher, it wont appear until i open it. I say this because when i open the chest, some of the rocket launcher instantly pops through the chest, even though the chest has barely opened, when before i had opened the chest, i couldnt see the rocket launcher. So yeah, loot may or may not load upon entering. I guess it does depend on what it is. ~ One random guy 05:30, April 23, 2010 (UTC) Chests do NOT load when the level loads! I too have seen weapons clip out but only AFTER I click to open. When you click to open a Green chest, the head of a Marcus money statue pops out just before the top opens. Watch the top of a Red chest and you'll see the tops of Shotgun shells or Weapon mags just break the surface right before the top opens! If these chests were pre-loaded, you'd see this clipping all the time. And consider the Ammo chests - they load mostly with ammo you're in need of most. From a programming point of view, it doesn't make sense to load a bunch of chests that may never be opened or are affected by player status or to have different "load" routines for each chest. No, the chests are not preloaded; they load between the click to open and the actual opening. -- MeMadeIt 07:16, April 23, 2010 (UTC) : Memadelt, I've stood there, looking at a combat rifle sticking out of the top of an unopened chest for 20 seconds or more before opening it. I didn't recognize what it was and stood there looking at it thinking that somehow the chest was bugged. It wasn't until it happened a second time with a similar combat rifle that I realized the contents were definitely loaded well in advance of opening. Now, to be open minded, this only ocurred with a large white chest, and only in New Haven. So I suppose it's possible that not ALL chests preload. But white ones definitely do, at least in New Haven. Also, my experience with knoxx and equiping the +2 mod before the level loads tells me that likely red and lance chests do tooGamedoctor21 17:57, April 23, 2010 (UTC) Not being able to see a rocket launcher clipping out a chest before you open it doesn't mean the contents are not pre-defined before you open it.. if that makes any sense. All that means is that the graphics for the item inside have not been rendered before you open the chest which is reasonable. In Fallout 3 containers are filled as you enter the specific area. Might be the same for BL or it might not. To counter MMI's point I'd say it makes a bit of sense to at least define what will be in a chest before it opens (i.e. when you enter the area) as it would reduce the time required to define the items and render if/when you actually do open them. As possible backup for that argument, just remember how long the loading sequence is between areas! But I do have to agree with the Ammo container point. Does that translate to Red chests which are filled with ammo specific to the weapon they contain such as chests containing only sniper rifles (or a rifle and a COM) 4x pistols and 1x rocket launchers? I.e. If you are low on Launcher ammo would you find an inordinate number of rocket launchers + ammo in red chests that you open? IMonkoii 07:49, April 23, 2010 (UTC) Again, I have no specific evidence, but I would have to disagree with the green chests always having what you need. Yes, sometimes they'll give you 6 of exactly what you need, but I have a feeling that that's just the random part of the game. I've had many incidents where I have no SMG ammo, but I still get all sniper from the chests. Its also entirely possible that chest populating is a mix of the two, in areas with only one or two, they might do it at the time, but in chest heavy places (like the Armory), you'd want to prepare for that in advance. Just to illustrate a counter point though, why would the chests take so long to open if they're not populating then? The opening time could be a way to mask the loading time for the gun population if it does indeed happen when you open them. Who knows really though, I just like to have it on all the time to be safe. Craw really isn't *that* hard to kill with a team if you're careful and use the glitch. TheKingBoar 18:51, April 23, 2010 (UTC) : With regard to the game giving you what you need. I've noticed this more with enemy drops than I have with crate contents. Also, this decision could be made when the stage is loaded. For example. If your character is a siren, you might see more SMG ammo in the level. Or, if you have a a sniper rifle equipped at the time the level loads, perhaps it will load more sniper ammo, or perhaps if your character has most of its proficiency points in pistols, you'll see more pistol ammo because the game knows that that weapons is what you use most just by seeing the proficiency levels. There are lots of possibilities to reasonably explain it. And like you said, it's possible that we're just noticing a quirk in the randomizationn mechanic. Who knows.Gamedoctor21 18:57, April 23, 2010 (UTC) I personally have had mixed experiences with these kinds of mods, both solo with a +3 Scavenge Extra/+2 Find Rare and with a Siren with an additional +2 Find Rare. I feel that the context of this particular mod can sometimes be mistranslated. From all o fthe things I've read online and most forums I've seen, It seems a lot of people think by wearing this, you'll find BETTER items. This is not necessarily true. What I DO believe is that this only gives you a better chance, in all circumstances, to find anything blue and higher. It is easy to see the effects of this NOT by hunting Craw or any of these bosses people try to milk for great items, but rather from the COMMON foes. A great example is heading to The Underpass, then heading to the left of the ramp to where Tannis is located (I don't know the directional coordinate right now, didn't bother to take note). As you head towards one of the anti-level-out turrets, there's a canopy with one chest (and another by the turret). In this area, an absolute swarm of every Spiderant known to man attacks in approximately 4 spawn areas, mostly congested around the canopy before mentioned. Note, the next area of explanation is based upon solo experience, so only counting 1x player difficulty and only my mod. Now, walking through here without the +2 Find Rare mod and instead just a normal +3 Scavenge, I find a multitude of white, green, and on occassion blue and purple items, maybe one Artifact from the Superbads. Given, there's TONS of items everywhere, but a good chunk of them aren't great. The chests mentioned before seem to also vary highly in quality, but usually only have maybe purple at most (which is usually a class mod). Now, running through that same area with the +2 Find Rare Items mod, it was actually difficult to sort through the items that were below blue, found at least one orange and/or yellow, and at least two Artifacts. Also to note, I've looked over the thread for Find Rare Items Experiment, and it just doesn't seem like all possible aspects are being tested appropriately. First off, the chests in New Haven are a terrible place to test on Xbox360. Why? White chests have a very low chance of spawning anything beyond green, even with mods on. This can throw off findings significantly if we don't first identify the chances of particular chests dropping particular types/qualities of items. I believe this should be the first order of action: finding the standards. After that, THEN figure out what's going on with the mods. I also noticed in this thread the stipulation that by "finding rare items" it means "finding items with rarer/better builds". These are two completely different experiments, mushed into one. The flaw behind this also is that people seem to only be comparing "good" items. In order to determine if this does "give Fat" to weapons, ALL items must be taken into context, not just ones that catch our eye. Perhaps I'll work on this experiment on the Xbox and see what findings I can get. Either way, I feel the +2 Find Rare Items DOES work, it's just it doesn't seem to work the way people EXPECT it to. If you want a better example (and probably a pretty close cousin to this aspect), check out the Diablo 2 threads about MF (Magic Finding), which goes into details how increasing your chance to find Magic Items factors into finding fatter loots. Ryo Kasami, 14:55, April 25, 2010 (EST) Ryo, you make some good points above. I agree with you, but wanted to mention that the article you are talking about was started long before DLC3 and its patch came out. New haven used to have 3 or 4 red chests, and only after the last patch did they all become silver. Hellz Lips 19:05, April 25, 2010 (UTC)